How NOT To Get A Sales Appointment
February 11, 2010 by Frank Rumbauskas
Filed under General Sales Advice, Latest News
Over the past couple of weeks, my staff has been dealing with a very persistent – but poor – salesperson. He is the very antithesis to my sales techniques, and is a great example of how NOT to get an appointment.
It all started off with a call to my office, stating that he’s going to be in town and would like to meet with me. My office politely explained that if we were looking for sales advice, a steep hourly consulting fee would need to be paid in advance, and that if this were a sales call, he needs to tell us, very specifically, what he’s selling.
He declined to explain what his product or service is, saying that it’s so revolutionary that it’s confidential, and that I’d even need to sign a non-disclosure agreement before meeting!
Needless to say, I declined the appointment.
Now before telling the next part of the story, a bit of background: Shortly after I became a best-selling author, all kinds of people began showing up at my office, since the address was publicly listed on my website. Many of these people came across as dangerous and maybe even a bit insane. People would drive hours just to return a product and demand an on-site refund, or to demand to see me personally in order to “challenge” my opinions. Some of these nuts downright scared the receptionist and others in the building. As a result, in the interest of my own safety & security and those around me, I got a UPS Store mailbox to use as our public company address and removed the physical office address from all web pages and correspondence. (I also obtained a Concealed Handgun License.)
The owner of the UPS Store is none too amused by this, since the wackos now show up there looking for me. Sure enough, this particular salesman showed up asking for me. He was told that I merely maintain a mailbox there. He then asked to leave a package in the mailbox. The owner explained that doing so is against Federal law and that he’d either have to mail or ship the package.
He did just that… sending me an old-fashioned hourglass sand timer, with a note saying, “Frank, return the favor and give ME some time!”
Now, bear with me here. Back in the bad old days of sitting through corporate sales training, we were told all the cornball stories of salespeople doing stupid things like mailing a prospect a shoe with a note saying, “Now that I’ve got one foot in the door, let me get the other foot in!” Those of us who were actually top producers laughed quietly, knowing that real decision makers with real power don’t respond to that kind of silliness. We respond only to salespeople who can clearly and concisely communicate to us – in advance – that they have real value to offer that will equate to real dollars in our business’ bottom line.
So, you can imagine my reaction to the hourglass stunt: None.
Another email followed requesting a meeting. My staff asked what it was about, and again, the salesman declined to say. Furthermore, he went on and on about how I will immediately recognize the “positive benefits” of a business relationship with him. And that he’s giving me the very first opportunity to get on board! (At this point I started thinking Amway.)
When he was declined an appointment yet again, another email followed, this time with a web link and a link to a video. My assistant forwarded it. The web site was extremely vague but seemed to have something to do with lead-generation services, something I have no need or desire for. I tried to click on the video that was supposed to explain everything to me, but alas, it was incompatible with Mac and wouldn’t play on my computer. (It’s very, very bad and unprofessional marketing to send out a link that’s not compatible with all platforms.)
I told my assistant to write back and tell him that he either very clearly explains what he has to offer, or to stop contacting my office.
Another email came back today, this one more vague than all the rest combined. And cheesiest. Here are some highlights since Heather copied me on it – I’m going to give you excerpts from the email in bold, along with my thoughts, so you know how real-world prospects react to these kinds of communication:
- I have a B.S. in psychology from _____ University. So what? How does that concern me? Why should I care?
- Our perception of risk vs. reward would have to be factored into all of the decisions we make. Fine. So what’s your point? I still don’t know what you’re selling.
- “What does Frank have to risk by signing the Confidentiality Agreement?” Good question, which cannot be answered until Frank knows what you’re selling.
- If, after finding out what ______ has to offer him he’s not interested, then he hasn’t “lost” anything. Actually, yes, I will have lost valuable time, which I consider my most precious asset, and as this salesperson found out the hard way, I guard it fiercely.
- I, on the other hand, know exactly what we have to offer… That doesn’t help me. I still don’t know what you have to offer, and until I do, no appointment for you.
- so that I may finally reveal to Frank his exclusive (for now) opportunity… That statement reeks of a scam or Ponzi scheme.
- Thank you again for your consideration. No, sorry, you are not being considered, because you have zero concept of the value of my time and the fact that you refuse to even tell me what you sell guarantees that you will not get a meeting with me.
In closing, learn from this story. This person has done just about everything wrong that can be done. His sales methods fly in the face of my own, and of all other sales methodologies that work, like those of Jeffrey Gitomer.
Be vague and secretive, and you’ll get nowhere. But show a prospect the value you can provide in advance, clearly and concisely, and you will make more money than you know what to do with!
Frank, the way I see it, this guy is a nutcase for sure, and you are better off not wasting you time with him, a conclusion you clearly stated already. However, I am thinking, (or hoping) this guy is not your average, run of the mill copy machine sales person, he is just a weirdo(among the other weirdos) and in my opinion, he does not deserve the space in your blog, or your time for that matter. When these situations happen to me, I simply make my self totally unavailable, and will not give them a time of day, I put them behind me as fast as I can, and if I can’t deal with them, I’ll just call the cops and let them take over. If you give them as much as 15 minutes of your time, you have forever lost it, and you know, they get a kick out of that. Hopefully things will return to normal for you. Rgds Harry
First of all, the company I work for is old school and requires mandatory telephone blocks. The phone blocks require you to make 100 dials or disciplinary action will be taken. It’s ironic that the goal truly is to set 6-10 good appointments from this telemarketed activity. I personally have NEVER bought anything from a telemarketer. We have been warned as a sales team that our avergage number of dials is too low and that our poor YTD sales is the result. I beg to differ that the setting good qualified appointments should be the key and not simply making dials. If I ask my sales manager he wants both … I am a past VP of Sales and Marketing, working at a position (due to the economy) that I am tremendously over-qualified for. My personal goal is to get face time with a prospect by either a call or a visit …. but regardless to show that I have something he needs. Our system is a pain in my side … My goal would to reward that sales person that only had to make 30 calls to get those 6-10 appointments … Actually, it’s not about making telephone dials, .. it’s a about sales results!
I strongly believe and have used outsourced telemarketing companies for situations as these in my past leadership roles. I wanted my sales team to be doing more value added tasks. How do you change a culture with a company that is so dedicated to old principles? By the way, the turnover rate at this position is about 80% company wide!
Thanks,
Dwane
Frank
Great article. In fact I have a “best” and “worst” swipe file that I share with my list. I’ll be sharing this article with my list as one of the “worst”. Not you but your example.
Thanks
Alan
The $100K Coach
Well he is not the only one doing this, unfortunately. Not willing to understand what truly matters to your customer is one of the worst things you can do in the sales profession.
I can say one thing positive about this guy. I admire his persistence
If only he would channel that energy in the right way, he actually could get somewhere.
Who would use a MAC?
Great example. Thanks for sharing and for your insightful comments. It does summarize the impact of all those gimmicky techniques that have a low probably of success and a high probability of irritating.
Hi Frank
You can just imagine this guy as a kid running into brick walls, oblivious to the fact that there is an open gate six feet to the left.
Maybe the next tiime he calls you, somebody should give him the link to your free ten chapters. Tell him it will take him less time to read than his next phone bill and he may get something from it other than an overdraft!!!
Paul
I agree cold caliing is a waste of time.
Frank; I need some advice from you. I hand delievered 500 fliers to businesses about three weeks ago. I followed your advice for design and delivery of the fliers as best I understood. To date I have had only one response. This response was not much at that. I believe in your technique but what posssibly went wrong here? I thought my response rate would be higher.
I appreciate any thoughts you have for me.
Thank you Steve
Frank,
I enjoyed this email today. Boy do I hate to cold call on the phone, although in person I have no problems. My product that I sell is of extreme value, however is also kinda of nitch market. So I can not cold call by foot on a office building or hit a corporate area. I must rely on the phones to set appointments. I find your tips very helpful, and I am always looking for an endge. Thanks -Tim Medlin
That was really a great illustration on what NOT to do to get an appointment. I am constantly bombarded by sales people who use crappy, tacky, trite methods to try to get an appointment. So much so that I now put multiiple barriers in place to discourage these people. For example, I told one guy that the only time I would meet with him was 2:00 A.M. on Sunday morning and I required a $1,000 nonrefundable cashier’s check be mailed to me one week before our meeting. He thought I was kidding. I wasn’t — and I slept really great that Sunday morning.
I agree. This poor sucker has no idea how awkward he is.
“I also obtained a Concealed Handgun License.”
That made me laugh. Wow I just don’t know what to say about that… I like your Blog.
I like this story, but it also saddens me. This is old school yes, the sad part is this also is what is still taught today. Business people are sick and tired of this hard press it’s a numbers game approach. Look, first these business people are first real people, smart, street smart and their time is one of the most important factors of their day. If you want to get some shock value, try something different, go all the way, take a risk. Tell the truth, give it to them straight, direct, to the point, give the the whole story and nothing but the story cut out the fat and watch the magic. That’s my story and I stickin to it. Thanks
Hi Frank
I do feel sorry for this man; it must be so frustrating for him. I used to work with a man that had a very aggressive sales approach too. He was quite good at bullying people into getting appointments but never delivered good levels of profitable business.
As far as I see it is the relationship you have with the client that dictates the level of profitable business. This relationship starts even before you meet him, with the very first approach; this is why I agree with your premise that retaining power and authority in the sales relationship is absolutely the key to success!
Keep up the good work Frank!
Kind regards
Tony Parry
Akpconsulting.com
Ok like Steve Brumm above we are in the process of passing out flyers but his questions worries me that out of 500 he has received no leads, I have followed your process completely hope we get more of a impact. Any last minute suggestions. We are a small janitorial firm in Michigan.
Just came ou of similar torture in small (hand-me-down) family business. But-sorry, but I’m still chuckling over Mike’s comment. Seriously, outside of creatives, who uses a Mac for business?
Frank,
To be honest the story is not a common one and it’s obvious the person has no idea what they are doing. Any decent salesperson with even half a brain knows to be forthcoming about the product or service they are selling. The story you are telling just sounds like some guy wants to meet you so he can pull some shenanigans. I think that you are pitching a point that even a “civilian” would understand. Consumers want to be treated properly, treat your prospect as you would want to be treated.
Tim Belanger— Keep track of all the companies you have given a flier to, get the address, phone, and purchasers info. Call them to follow up on receipt of the flier and ask for an appointment to present your services. If they say not at this time, tell them you will call back in 4 weeks to check in and do so. Once again ask for the opportunity and the business. A closed mouth doesn’t get fed.
Frank you seem to have an endless supply of funny stories involving incompetent salespeople, I love them.
Maybe you should write a book ha ha.
To people who inquired about effectiveness of flyers, keep in mind they’re a cumulative marketing tool. 3 weeks is really too soon to expect solid results from it. And 500 is too small a number. I’d say a minimum of 100/day for a month to begin generating a solid supply of leads.
As to using a Mac, pretty much the entire internet marketing world has gone Mac. Windows is old news. And it doesn’t make financial or business sense to run a PC when a Mac can run both platforms simultaneously. It’s also UNIX-based and can literally run for months without a crash or reboot.
Frank,
I have always thought that cold-calling is a complete waste of time! It’s confusing why have the majority of companies I have interviewed with, and have worked for insist upon minimum daily metrics in regards to “cold-calling?” It’s ridiculous! In addition, the mere mention of doing something different, (successful=cold calling is a waste of time) results in heavy finger pointing. How do we get businesses to change eloquently when they are so resistent to change? I feel like I can only make suggestions, however it’s ultimately not my decision.
Whoever says cold calling is a waste of time is not thinking correctly. Do it smarter not harder. All sales reps should be making cold calls every day, via phone or walk in. You have to encompass all avenues of sales to be successful, cold calls, references, walk ins, warm leads, etc. If you plan to make it in the world of sales plan to be dedicated and work hard, this includes cold calling.
Please see the following for anyone who really believes that cold calling “works”:
http://www.salestipsandadvice.com/latest-sales-news/fallacy-cold-calling-work/
(Hint: It works if you want to work 60+ hours a week and put your real life on hold.)
It’s amazing the number of amateurs posing as “sales people” and trashing our already diminished reputation. We license every conceivable activity why not a real competency test for sales? (child bearing iis another candidate as well)
If this guy has that much time to focus on you he either:
A: Really thinks you are the best and only fit and should have explained why he wanted to meet you
or
B: Has free time bc he can’t actually get anyone to sit down and have a conversation
but from the sound of this it isn’t really a conversation, more like talking to a wall.
I think cold calls can have value but I understand you approach has merit as well
If you are able to clearly articulate a strong value prop which resonates with target prospects and pains they feel, it works. If you do your HW and let x know why Y would have value based off of what you have proven with Z you can make it happen.
But you can force your way anywhere, you are not driving the boat at that point. Once they let you onboard then you can begin to steer. And knowing who to call is key.
I wouldn’t say it’s dead, but most people who don’t know what they are doing are killing it for the rest of us.
And I still feel decision makers prefer the phone/email combo.
ha ha ……………….. this just proves that you you cant get a qualification in sales.
Sales is knowing your product, knowing your market, knowing your client and listening & reading your clients signals.!
I had an experience (last week) at the Insurance Agency where I am the Director of Life Insurance Sales. Two, forty something, women came in and announced to the receptionist that they had, “Started a new business & had to speak to somebody about all kinds of insurance including Life, Workers’ Comp., Commercial P&C – the whole gamut!”
I could discern that the receptionist was a bit confused as to where she should direct them, I stepped out of my office (after overhearing them in the lobby) and asked, “How may I help you?” Well, it turned out they were not interested in purchasing any type of Insurance – of any kind. They were pitching some obscure, MLM, program that involved being a “Virtual Travel Agency.” This, ostensibly, would result in those folks (who would be using the virtual travel agency) to click on my link and buy insurance products.
I advised them that lying and using a ruse like they did would not endear them to me. I also told them to leave my office and quit lying to get face time. They claimed that they would say anything (including pretending to want a certain product or service) to get “face-time” and it had “worked very well so far.” In their defense, they were not professionals and this was the first job either of them had in 15 years.
Hi Frank. The guy is obviously being cute and possibly as you suspect also slightly off-the-wall. If he cannot articulate what he has to sell then he has a long was to go. And he’ll go there the hard way! Maybe he has got some qualifications but he is either a wacko, or naive or young and being poorlymentored. The only reason I’d see him would be for our own internal amusement on a Friday afternoon to let our guys see what not to do. Maybe if he was young, perhaps we could give him some mentoring. We do that with students from a couple of local universities here in Auckland, New Zealand.
Your ideas obviously haven’t filtered down to him. Personally we have used them for over a year and they have changed the way we do business. They are also being factored into future planning as we continue to grow. Thanks a million Frank. Keep it up!
Frank,
Yes we can all learn from this example, Time is precious …
I agree with Frank, and I use both Mac and Windows so I do know what I’m talking about.
Pretty much anyone who values their time and thinks differently, uses a Mac for home and/ or business. They are efficient and pleasing to work with, the OS is very stable, rarely the target of virus creators and, as Frank says, extremely versatile.
I accept that Windows is, however, a vital part of the world economy. Just imagine how many IT support people would be unemployed in a world without it..
Hi Frank,
Why not give the guy an appointment…with the janitor or somebody who pretends to be you. Video tape the whole thing, make him beg to do business with the janitor in order to get audience with you, then allow the janitor to throw the bum out for wasting his time. You don’t waste your time and everyone in the office gets to have a good laugh at this dim wit’s expense. Publish it to a vodcast so we ALL can learn a valuable lesson.
Frank Cold calling can work and in some ways is the best. I have just started a low cost web design company and for me cold calling is clearly working.I would love not to do this but…….
I think you are a pompous ass. I also believe your story is BS and even though I’ve asked you to remove my name from your mailing list, you continue to send me emails. You are no better than your fake storyline… Also, my office was down the street from your phony p.o. box in Corona del Mar. Too bad you can’t afford an office where it’s not so fucking hot and humid…
Frank,
Not to turn the conversation to you, but something screamed out at me in the midst of the noise about this “salesman”.
I’m not sure I would publish the fact that you have so many dissatisfied customers that you not only had to get a PO box and can’t publish your address, but you had to get a gun. Furthermore the UPS guy is now upset at the number of “wackos” that show up at his place.
It makes me wonder about the quality of your product.
I think the real lesson learned here, even in the example of the salesman, is to make sure our words are always well thought out for the masses, and fine tuned for the actual prospect.
We live and die by our words.
Hi David,
Who said anything about dishonest customers, aside from the one guy who drove up from San Diego demanding a refund? Anyone who believes that 100% of customers will always be satisfied has never actually sold anything (no offense).
The majority of people who show up are rabid “fans,” autograph seekers, and most off all, people looking for free advice/consulting without having to make a formal appointment or otherwise pay my standard fees.
Frank
Bit harsh Ed Simmons. If spending your time belittling others and getting a laugh at their expense is your idea of spending your time wisely…… that’s a concern.
At least this bloke is having a go, perhaps misguided, but none the less having a go.
Perhaps a more constructive course of action for Frank would be to send the guy a free copy of his course material, after all he provided Frank with lotsd of free material for his blog.
I’m not sure who said anything about dishonest customers. The word was dissatisfied, and I was just taking that from what you said (“People would drive hours just to return a product and demand an on-site refund, or to demand to see me personally in order to “challenge” my opinions”.)
And I didn’t infer that I never had a dissatisfied customer, so no offense taken. I realize that if you don’t shake some people up, you’re really not doing anything. I’m not being adversarial, and I know it comes across as that, so you don’t have to post this.
I actually love the concept of your product. Cold calling does not work, and is a task better suited for someone that can’t actually sell.
Hi…. I work in Australia as an appointment setter and set up a number of multi million dollar opportunities most weeks for my employer organisation. I am the cold call specialist! Actually I don’t think of what I do as cold calling but blue printing – information gathering. That’s both before the first meet and after it (I quizz the sales guys for spend details, contract expiry dates, decision process etc). While I’m working from a multi contact database which I’ve built over a couple of years, I still do and enjoy doing the cold calls and use some reasonably cheesy bye-lines to get there. The cheesiest (“would you be the crossest?”) I reserve for the most difficult and intractable cases where there’s not a lot to lose! The most important part of what I do is to be on the spot at the right time and the bring up date on each record is the single most important field on the records I work with. Speaking of which it’s time for me to get myself off to work! Cheers.
Hi David,
My bad – what I failed to realize is the disconnect between selling information products on the internet as I do, and regular outside sales. In the internet marketing world, it’s an accepted cost of doing business that a certain percentage of people will buy your product with the full intention of copying it and immediately mailing it back for a refund.
In doing this for almost seven years, I’ve found that truly dissatisfied customers, who fortunately are few and far between, will be polite and go through the standard return process. It’s the crooks who make a big stink and begin the communication with “you’d better give me my money back or I’m calling my lawyer,” instead of simply doing a standard refund request.
I’ve found that honest customers who return my product(s) generally do so because their boss or company won’t allow them to use any of my techniques, and demand 100 cold calls per day instead (or something of the sort). So I certainly understand why they’d send my materials back.
Frank
Hey Bob SLAVEnhoss –
I’ll be stretching out in my huge house on big acreage here while you’re cooped up spending the rest of your life on your little 40×80 CDM lot with your rude & unfriendly neighbors’ house 5 feet away so you can hear their toilets flush (pretty much why I left Newport Beach).
I think the real issue here is that you can’t handle south Texas because you’d show up with your pompous Newport attitude and get your ass kicked on a daily basis.
Frank
Frank great stuff as usual. I have followed your work for 2 or 3 years now and I always look forward to your emails from the newsletter you run. are you in the UK anytime soon?